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	<title>Comments on: Heroes of Slang 21: The Newgate Novelists</title>
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	<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/</link>
	<description>A Culture Blog</description>
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		<title>By: awindram</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52956</link>
		<dc:creator>awindram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 05:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve always thought &quot;Caleb Williams&quot; was ripe for a BBC adaptation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always thought &#8220;Caleb Williams&#8221; was ripe for a BBC adaptation.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52448</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 15:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the translations, Jonathon... the lingo has changed a bit, but why do slang words so often sound rude - even if they aren&#039;t?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the translations, Jonathon&#8230; the lingo has changed a bit, but why do slang words so often sound rude &#8211; even if they aren&#8217;t?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Slang</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52223</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Slang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedabbler.co.uk/?p=29840#comment-52223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Byron may have seen Vaux, but he may also have picked up the song entire. Tthe source is debated and I offer my info from the upcoming &lt;i&gt;History of Slang&lt;/i&gt;:

The authorship has been attributed to John Jackson (1769-1845), an ex-prizefighter (champion from 1795-1803) who taught Byron and a number of his friends. The aristocratic poet termed him his ‘old friend and corporeal pastor and master’ and noted in his ’Hints from Horace’  that ‘men unpractised in exchanging knocks / Must go to Jackson ere they dare to box.’  It was a quintessential flash relationship: the lord and the butcher’s son turned publican, united no doubt in language as much as in friendship.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Byron may have seen Vaux, but he may also have picked up the song entire. Tthe source is debated and I offer my info from the upcoming <i>History of Slang</i>:</p>
<p>The authorship has been attributed to John Jackson (1769-1845), an ex-prizefighter (champion from 1795-1803) who taught Byron and a number of his friends. The aristocratic poet termed him his ‘old friend and corporeal pastor and master’ and noted in his ’Hints from Horace’  that ‘men unpractised in exchanging knocks / Must go to Jackson ere they dare to box.’  It was a quintessential flash relationship: the lord and the butcher’s son turned publican, united no doubt in language as much as in friendship.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan law</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52091</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 19:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedabbler.co.uk/?p=29840#comment-52091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There’s a terrific piece of ‘flash language’ in one of the last cantos of Byron’s &lt;i&gt;Don Juan&lt;/i&gt; – the bit where Juan is set upon by footpads at Blackheath and shoots dead their leader, Tom:

&lt;i&gt;Poor Tom was once a kiddy upon town,
A thorough varmint, and a real swell,
Full flash, all fancy, until fairly diddled,
His pockets first and then his body riddled ...

Who in a row like Tom could lead the van,
Booze in the ken, or at the spellken hustle?
 Who queer a flat? Who (spite of Bow Street&#039;s ban)
On the high toby-spice so flash the muzzle?
Who on a lark, with black-eyed Sal (his blowing),
So prime, so swell, so nutty, and so knowing?&lt;/i&gt;

Here the use of thieves’ cant is not merely comic, or anthropological, but takes on a sort of Homeric pathos. According to my edition, Byron’s main source was the book that Ainsworth would later use: &lt;i&gt;Memoirs of the First Thirty-Two Years of The Life of James Hardy Vaux, A Swindler and Pickpocket; Now Transported for the Second Time, and For Life, to New South Wales&lt;/i&gt; (1819).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There’s a terrific piece of ‘flash language’ in one of the last cantos of Byron’s <i>Don Juan</i> – the bit where Juan is set upon by footpads at Blackheath and shoots dead their leader, Tom:</p>
<p><i>Poor Tom was once a kiddy upon town,<br />
A thorough varmint, and a real swell,<br />
Full flash, all fancy, until fairly diddled,<br />
His pockets first and then his body riddled &#8230;</p>
<p>Who in a row like Tom could lead the van,<br />
Booze in the ken, or at the spellken hustle?<br />
 Who queer a flat? Who (spite of Bow Street&#8217;s ban)<br />
On the high toby-spice so flash the muzzle?<br />
Who on a lark, with black-eyed Sal (his blowing),<br />
So prime, so swell, so nutty, and so knowing?</i></p>
<p>Here the use of thieves’ cant is not merely comic, or anthropological, but takes on a sort of Homeric pathos. According to my edition, Byron’s main source was the book that Ainsworth would later use: <i>Memoirs of the First Thirty-Two Years of The Life of James Hardy Vaux, A Swindler and Pickpocket; Now Transported for the Second Time, and For Life, to New South Wales</i> (1819).</p>
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		<title>By: Worm</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52067</link>
		<dc:creator>Worm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 15:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedabbler.co.uk/?p=29840#comment-52067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d say straight away that it seems to be similar to the nadsat language of the droogs in Burgess&#039; A Clockwork Orange]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say straight away that it seems to be similar to the nadsat language of the droogs in Burgess&#8217; A Clockwork Orange</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52066</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 15:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedabbler.co.uk/?p=29840#comment-52066</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t it interesting that these popular ripping good reads did character ambiguity to the disgust of Thackery and presumably other members of the literary establishment, while today British mysteries are rightfully admired for it and it is the American airport bestseller that will have no thimblerigging with virtue and vice?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it interesting that these popular ripping good reads did character ambiguity to the disgust of Thackery and presumably other members of the literary establishment, while today British mysteries are rightfully admired for it and it is the American airport bestseller that will have no thimblerigging with virtue and vice?</p>
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		<title>By: John Halliwell</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52064</link>
		<dc:creator>John Halliwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedabbler.co.uk/?p=29840#comment-52064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marvelous!

I wonder if ‘The Hon. F.L.G.’, author of The Swell’s Night Guide was, in fact, Thackeray himself, author of The Book of Snobs, playing around with Yiddish slang, uncertain of how best to use it, whilst protecting his identity? That, I do admit, is a very tenuous link and I’m sure there are apt slang and non-slang words to describe the originator of such an idea, but I would prefer to remain totally ignorant as to what they are, if you don’t mind.

‘I’ll gully the dag and bimbole the clicky in a snuffkin.’
‘Nuffle your clod, and beladle your glumbanions,’ said Vizard, with a dreadful oath. ‘This way, men: if they screak, out with your snickers and slick! Look to the pewter-room, Blowser. You, Mark, to the old gaff’s mopus box! and I,” added he, in a lower but more horrible voice, ‘I will look to Amelia!’  

Is this where Took and Feldman got the idea for Rambling Syd Rumpo?

On reading about Aram and the way he was recreated in the Victorian popular mind as a tortured soul whose philosophising in some way excused his crime, I immediately thought of Joey Barton, a talented, if not exceptional footballer; intelligent, a one-time footballing thug, perhaps a tortured soul, loathed by all except the fans of the club paying his wages at a particular time, but who now appears to have found salvation in the modern popular mind through his use of the musings of the great philosophers. It wouldn’t surprise me if, one day soon, he announces his retirement from football to write a new translation of Descartes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marvelous!</p>
<p>I wonder if ‘The Hon. F.L.G.’, author of The Swell’s Night Guide was, in fact, Thackeray himself, author of The Book of Snobs, playing around with Yiddish slang, uncertain of how best to use it, whilst protecting his identity? That, I do admit, is a very tenuous link and I’m sure there are apt slang and non-slang words to describe the originator of such an idea, but I would prefer to remain totally ignorant as to what they are, if you don’t mind.</p>
<p>‘I’ll gully the dag and bimbole the clicky in a snuffkin.’<br />
‘Nuffle your clod, and beladle your glumbanions,’ said Vizard, with a dreadful oath. ‘This way, men: if they screak, out with your snickers and slick! Look to the pewter-room, Blowser. You, Mark, to the old gaff’s mopus box! and I,” added he, in a lower but more horrible voice, ‘I will look to Amelia!’  </p>
<p>Is this where Took and Feldman got the idea for Rambling Syd Rumpo?</p>
<p>On reading about Aram and the way he was recreated in the Victorian popular mind as a tortured soul whose philosophising in some way excused his crime, I immediately thought of Joey Barton, a talented, if not exceptional footballer; intelligent, a one-time footballing thug, perhaps a tortured soul, loathed by all except the fans of the club paying his wages at a particular time, but who now appears to have found salvation in the modern popular mind through his use of the musings of the great philosophers. It wouldn’t surprise me if, one day soon, he announces his retirement from football to write a new translation of Descartes.</p>
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		<title>By: Worm</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52051</link>
		<dc:creator>Worm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 13:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedabbler.co.uk/?p=29840#comment-52051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love the word &#039;flash&#039; for criminal slang]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the word &#8216;flash&#8217; for criminal slang</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Slang</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52050</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Slang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 13:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[If only I could a. write, and b. knew some enthusiastic TV folk. It does make me wonder, seriously, why the 18th century hasn&#039;t been mined more assiduously for scripts. &lt;i&gt;Tom Jones&lt;/i&gt;, of course, but otherwise? OK. Maybe not ‘Samuel Johnson: The Drudge and the Deity,’ but Jack Sheppard would be a natural: &#039;stand and deliver&#039;, rides to York, multiple escapes from ever-more-heavily ironed confinement in Newgate, booze, gore, tattooed subordinates, decolletage and glumbanions where&#039;er you look... Not to mention a jolly dance at Beilby&#039;s ball where the sheriff pays the pipers for a stirring, if salutory conclusion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only I could a. write, and b. knew some enthusiastic TV folk. It does make me wonder, seriously, why the 18th century hasn&#8217;t been mined more assiduously for scripts. <i>Tom Jones</i>, of course, but otherwise? OK. Maybe not ‘Samuel Johnson: The Drudge and the Deity,’ but Jack Sheppard would be a natural: &#8216;stand and deliver&#8217;, rides to York, multiple escapes from ever-more-heavily ironed confinement in Newgate, booze, gore, tattooed subordinates, decolletage and glumbanions where&#8217;er you look&#8230; Not to mention a jolly dance at Beilby&#8217;s ball where the sheriff pays the pipers for a stirring, if salutory conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerome</title>
		<link>http://thedabbler.co.uk/2013/02/heroes-of-slang-21-the-newgate-novelists/#comment-52026</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 11:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[pulp fiction indeed surely time for TV series Newgate to follow on from current overheated Ripper]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pulp fiction indeed surely time for TV series Newgate to follow on from current overheated Ripper</p>
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